I think this conversation also really skews how we understand and approach relationships. You shouldn't look for a partner based on how they treat you, as that should be the norm. Who do you share interests with, want to live life with, and go on adventures with? Who do you feel like you can be yourself around? Many do not allow themselves to ask these questions because they are preoccupied with fearing the first, even though it should be the norm. I have been very blessed in my dating life so far, and so I go (went since I currently have a boyfriend) in assuming I will be treated well, and anyone that is not that simply does not make the cut to the later questions.
I’ve read all 3 of those memoirs (though not Adult Braces) and I did have a thought of “why did you marry those men?”, but it comes from a different place that you write about.
What I felt was missing from these divorce memoirs was insight into the patriarchal reasons why these women chose to marry shitty men. I wanted to hear what benefits they gained from society - social and economic - from marrying shitty men in their 20s. I want reflection on how they may have participated in the patriarchal campaign to shame women for not getting married young. Did they actively propagandize by pushing other women to “settle” or marry early? Or did they simply passively propagandize by hiding their husband’s flaws?
I remember being a woman in my 20s and frustrated that most of the men I met were not husband material. I also remember a lot of female peers who married early giving me shitty dating advice, gaslighting me about not finding marriageable men (and telling me to settle, and telling me everything would be better as soon as I was married.
They were drunk on the conservative social status of heteronormative conformity, and they used that position of status to pressure other women to make the same concession to patriarchy they did. Now they are divorced and being honest how shitty their husband was from the start. I want more reflection on this behavior, not just self-righteous fury when they divorce.
One way to systemically stop women from marrying shitty men is talk openly about how patriarchy pushes women to marry shitty men. We need to be more honest with ourselves and recognize the sham privileges of heteronormative conformity, especially when young.
I think marriage is great. I am married (to a woman). I don’t think (traditional) marriage (to a man) should convey so much social status to women. It makes women choose shitty men for the social status of marriage.
I am also polyamorous, and because of this I can see more clearly how defensive even leftwing and feminist women are of heteronormative privilege. It’s makes us vulnerable patriarchal control. And, if feminist women are going to make money for writing about their divorces, they should do more to untangle what patriarchal forces made them choose marriage to a shitty men in the first place and how they propagated that patriarchal system through their choices.
I am also so tired of seeing people (mostly men, but some women) comment "it's the woman's fault for picking wrong" on any post talking about abuse or mistreatment. As if men can't help being abusive, so the blame lies only with her.
There is not a man alive who cares one whit about Lindy West and her betrayal of feminism. So who doesn’t want to embarrassed in front of whom? I think your biggest complaint is that he doesn’t feel embarrassment. Why should he? I don’t need to hear why you would be embarrassed if in their shoes, in his mind, why should he be?
Side step. I know you feel judged by other women. But one can only be embarrassed by agreeing that one should be. I can only be embarrassed by my actual actions, and not by others might rumor about me. Why should he accept your definition of what is or is not embarrassing?
Because his behavior has been objectively very poor (managing to cheat on his wife in an open relationship, breaking trust, not demonstrating accountability for choices that hurt his partners, sending a misogynistic screed to a female journalist, etc.).
When asked by Slate about his email, he said something to the effect of "That was a typo. What I had meant to say was 'Free Palestine.'" He's not standing behind his own rant. That smacks of embarrassment, no?
Read what you wrote. Think of the chain of events. He wrote a big long rant. And then, oops, Free Palestine. Do you not see the contempt in his response. “This is what you fuckers want to hear”. Are you really that naive?
The comment section in your link does a pretty good job of explaining why the general "happiness" metrics aren't very useful for this question. Are married men/women happy? Are men/women happy *in* or *with* their marriages? These are different questions.
This article does a better job at getting to this question, I think. They find that women initiate divorce way more often than men and are less likely to remarry. Both men and women surveyed answered that men benefit from marriage more.
God, this reminded me of a video from Chelsea of the Financial Diet, I was mortified by her video, and how she couldn't see how misogynistic it was. The video titled "stop telling us about your loser husbands" once again put the onus on women and contributes for the perpetuation of the problem. I want women, my friends, the people in my family, etc, to actually share and tell me what their husbands/boyfriends are like. It's because of women NOT sharing that we sometimes get 'punched' in the face, when suddenly someone commits suicide, divorces, is killed, and we had absolutely no idea who the men behind the silence was. Stop this nonsense once and for all. If we can share the good moments, we also have the right to share the bad moments. I dare say it's the correct and responsible thing to do.
Yes, why are we also bearing the burden of men’s embarrassment? This was excellent!
This is a very thoughtful article by a very good writer. I highly recommend following Emily 👌.
I think this conversation also really skews how we understand and approach relationships. You shouldn't look for a partner based on how they treat you, as that should be the norm. Who do you share interests with, want to live life with, and go on adventures with? Who do you feel like you can be yourself around? Many do not allow themselves to ask these questions because they are preoccupied with fearing the first, even though it should be the norm. I have been very blessed in my dating life so far, and so I go (went since I currently have a boyfriend) in assuming I will be treated well, and anyone that is not that simply does not make the cut to the later questions.
I’ve read all 3 of those memoirs (though not Adult Braces) and I did have a thought of “why did you marry those men?”, but it comes from a different place that you write about.
What I felt was missing from these divorce memoirs was insight into the patriarchal reasons why these women chose to marry shitty men. I wanted to hear what benefits they gained from society - social and economic - from marrying shitty men in their 20s. I want reflection on how they may have participated in the patriarchal campaign to shame women for not getting married young. Did they actively propagandize by pushing other women to “settle” or marry early? Or did they simply passively propagandize by hiding their husband’s flaws?
I remember being a woman in my 20s and frustrated that most of the men I met were not husband material. I also remember a lot of female peers who married early giving me shitty dating advice, gaslighting me about not finding marriageable men (and telling me to settle, and telling me everything would be better as soon as I was married.
They were drunk on the conservative social status of heteronormative conformity, and they used that position of status to pressure other women to make the same concession to patriarchy they did. Now they are divorced and being honest how shitty their husband was from the start. I want more reflection on this behavior, not just self-righteous fury when they divorce.
One way to systemically stop women from marrying shitty men is talk openly about how patriarchy pushes women to marry shitty men. We need to be more honest with ourselves and recognize the sham privileges of heteronormative conformity, especially when young.
I think marriage is great. I am married (to a woman). I don’t think (traditional) marriage (to a man) should convey so much social status to women. It makes women choose shitty men for the social status of marriage.
I am also polyamorous, and because of this I can see more clearly how defensive even leftwing and feminist women are of heteronormative privilege. It’s makes us vulnerable patriarchal control. And, if feminist women are going to make money for writing about their divorces, they should do more to untangle what patriarchal forces made them choose marriage to a shitty men in the first place and how they propagated that patriarchal system through their choices.
Oh wow thanks for bringing this up! 👏👏👏
I am also so tired of seeing people (mostly men, but some women) comment "it's the woman's fault for picking wrong" on any post talking about abuse or mistreatment. As if men can't help being abusive, so the blame lies only with her.
Great letter Emily, thank you!
This is a weird amount of perfectionism we are expecting from women who marry men.
So good!!
This is so relevant for me right now. Really appreciate this piece.
I have zero sympathy for this guy and he writes like a teenager, but this is why you never talk to a journalist.
Their entire job is to twist your words into a predetermined narrative for rage bait articles.
There is not a man alive who cares one whit about Lindy West and her betrayal of feminism. So who doesn’t want to embarrassed in front of whom? I think your biggest complaint is that he doesn’t feel embarrassment. Why should he? I don’t need to hear why you would be embarrassed if in their shoes, in his mind, why should he be?
Yes, you are citing the issue that men are not embarrassed by their bad behavior. We know!
Side step. I know you feel judged by other women. But one can only be embarrassed by agreeing that one should be. I can only be embarrassed by my actual actions, and not by others might rumor about me. Why should he accept your definition of what is or is not embarrassing?
Because his behavior has been objectively very poor (managing to cheat on his wife in an open relationship, breaking trust, not demonstrating accountability for choices that hurt his partners, sending a misogynistic screed to a female journalist, etc.).
Is that what he would say he did? How come nobody gets this? I get that you want him to.
When asked by Slate about his email, he said something to the effect of "That was a typo. What I had meant to say was 'Free Palestine.'" He's not standing behind his own rant. That smacks of embarrassment, no?
Read what you wrote. Think of the chain of events. He wrote a big long rant. And then, oops, Free Palestine. Do you not see the contempt in his response. “This is what you fuckers want to hear”. Are you really that naive?
> Women being unsatisfied and unhappy, more so than men, in heterosexual partnerships is the norm.
As far as I can tell, the evidence doesn’t really support this. Here’s one discussion:
> https://statmodeling.stat.columbia.edu/2024/08/27/marriage-happiness/
Google Scholar has a wealth of research articles on the topic from peer reviewed journals.
The comment section in your link does a pretty good job of explaining why the general "happiness" metrics aren't very useful for this question. Are married men/women happy? Are men/women happy *in* or *with* their marriages? These are different questions.
Right, which supports my point that we don’t really have evidence for the quoted claim.
This article does a better job at getting to this question, I think. They find that women initiate divorce way more often than men and are less likely to remarry. Both men and women surveyed answered that men benefit from marriage more.
https://www.americansurveycenter.org/newsletter/is-marriage-better-for-men/
God, this reminded me of a video from Chelsea of the Financial Diet, I was mortified by her video, and how she couldn't see how misogynistic it was. The video titled "stop telling us about your loser husbands" once again put the onus on women and contributes for the perpetuation of the problem. I want women, my friends, the people in my family, etc, to actually share and tell me what their husbands/boyfriends are like. It's because of women NOT sharing that we sometimes get 'punched' in the face, when suddenly someone commits suicide, divorces, is killed, and we had absolutely no idea who the men behind the silence was. Stop this nonsense once and for all. If we can share the good moments, we also have the right to share the bad moments. I dare say it's the correct and responsible thing to do.
They’re both embarrassing themselves; it’s not an either/or.
The lesson from polyamory failing will once again be that men are supposedly universally bad.
Thank you!!!!! I love him throughout all of our “come get your man” situations. He’s given me so much. I can at least give him some grace.