My grandpa was no picnic though. He was exacting about standards and the only person who could put up with that was someone whose self esteem was not dependent on those things.
I don't particularly empathize with the women who complain about their husbands not helping around the house tbh. They remind me of my mom. She always complains about her kids being messy, but once we moved out, it hit us we didn't mind tidying, we just didn't want to be tidying around her because in her eyes we were always doing it wrong. I wouldn't be surprised if 80% of the whiners were like my mom.
I don't have issues of inequality in my marriage, and that is because I spent the initial few years making my husband feel like the house and what it looks like is also his domain and he gets to pick what art goes on the walls even if it doesnt go with my taste. He grew up in a house where they ate a lot of canned food and cleaned once a week tops because everyone worked long hours, so he's not the best at standards, but he has better follow-through than me. So it works out.
Yeah I don't think the issue is neurotic women, I know plenty of "type B" moms who struggle majorly with this and it's not because they need things to be perfect, it's because they need things to be done. People need clean clothes to wear, food in their lunchboxes, and clean bowls to put cereal in.
The problem isn't type-A or type-B. I see messy houses where the husband is like "oh she has all the ideas, I just stay out of it and do the heavy lifting when she asks". My parents house wasn't the golden standard of tidy either. Being a control-freak isn't about perfection. It's about having an idea in your head about how things are going to go and not enjoying it when it deviates from that idea, and, often, expecting everyone to read your mind for your ideas and then being mad when they don't. They still want to be the sole arbiter of the home domain, because that's how they've seen/experienced it done.
And another part of the problem is just taking on more than you can do and not realizing it. I've been guilty of this. If you're both working long hours and have kids, maybe you're not going to be able to sort laundry into multiple loads (I've talked about this online on multiple women-oriented subreddits, and everyone seems to take laundry more seriously than I do). Maybe you can't handle a lawn, just put down weed cloth and woodchips. Maybe there are going to be barbies on the floor all the time.
I notice generally that women who complain about their husbands being incompetent at home don't actually mind their husbands are incompetent at these things - it makes them feel like domestic goddesses in comparison. The complaining is a kind of bragging or trying to feel better/equivalent - 'oh he might be a big dude at work, but at home, I've to remind him to take the trash out'. I wonder if some of it is a luxury thing - you've made it according to male expectations if your wife can lose money on a business. Maybe you've made it according to female expectations if you can deal with your husband making a giant mess to be happy. The next time some such woman is complaining IRL, try being outraged on her behalf and see how quickly she changes her tone (I've done this earnestly when I didn't know how these things worked).
Bottomline - I believe people are competent and rational. If women are happy being married to men who don't do chores much, it must mean the chores don't matter so much. If it becomes a real issue, people usually hire a cleaner. When that is an option, if people are getting divorced over chores, it usually means other things are wrong in the marriage and the chores are just what you say to your friends.
Your mom sounds a lot like mine. She doesn’t see my version of clean as valid and gets offended if I can clean up quicker than she can, like even if she can’t see how I did it differently from her, somehow it’s cheating to have done it faster.
Spot on. this is the best comment in the section. A lot of the women here never valued the men they were with, not really. Maybe the men also didn't value the women back. goid luck with the next guy.
Do you think your grandma made your grandpa's life better? She sounds kinda terrible.
I agree that the point of marriage isn't housework, the point of marriage is building a shared life.
My grandpa was no picnic though. He was exacting about standards and the only person who could put up with that was someone whose self esteem was not dependent on those things.
I don't particularly empathize with the women who complain about their husbands not helping around the house tbh. They remind me of my mom. She always complains about her kids being messy, but once we moved out, it hit us we didn't mind tidying, we just didn't want to be tidying around her because in her eyes we were always doing it wrong. I wouldn't be surprised if 80% of the whiners were like my mom.
I don't have issues of inequality in my marriage, and that is because I spent the initial few years making my husband feel like the house and what it looks like is also his domain and he gets to pick what art goes on the walls even if it doesnt go with my taste. He grew up in a house where they ate a lot of canned food and cleaned once a week tops because everyone worked long hours, so he's not the best at standards, but he has better follow-through than me. So it works out.
Yeah I don't think the issue is neurotic women, I know plenty of "type B" moms who struggle majorly with this and it's not because they need things to be perfect, it's because they need things to be done. People need clean clothes to wear, food in their lunchboxes, and clean bowls to put cereal in.
The problem isn't type-A or type-B. I see messy houses where the husband is like "oh she has all the ideas, I just stay out of it and do the heavy lifting when she asks". My parents house wasn't the golden standard of tidy either. Being a control-freak isn't about perfection. It's about having an idea in your head about how things are going to go and not enjoying it when it deviates from that idea, and, often, expecting everyone to read your mind for your ideas and then being mad when they don't. They still want to be the sole arbiter of the home domain, because that's how they've seen/experienced it done.
And another part of the problem is just taking on more than you can do and not realizing it. I've been guilty of this. If you're both working long hours and have kids, maybe you're not going to be able to sort laundry into multiple loads (I've talked about this online on multiple women-oriented subreddits, and everyone seems to take laundry more seriously than I do). Maybe you can't handle a lawn, just put down weed cloth and woodchips. Maybe there are going to be barbies on the floor all the time.
I notice generally that women who complain about their husbands being incompetent at home don't actually mind their husbands are incompetent at these things - it makes them feel like domestic goddesses in comparison. The complaining is a kind of bragging or trying to feel better/equivalent - 'oh he might be a big dude at work, but at home, I've to remind him to take the trash out'. I wonder if some of it is a luxury thing - you've made it according to male expectations if your wife can lose money on a business. Maybe you've made it according to female expectations if you can deal with your husband making a giant mess to be happy. The next time some such woman is complaining IRL, try being outraged on her behalf and see how quickly she changes her tone (I've done this earnestly when I didn't know how these things worked).
Bottomline - I believe people are competent and rational. If women are happy being married to men who don't do chores much, it must mean the chores don't matter so much. If it becomes a real issue, people usually hire a cleaner. When that is an option, if people are getting divorced over chores, it usually means other things are wrong in the marriage and the chores are just what you say to your friends.
Your mom sounds a lot like mine. She doesn’t see my version of clean as valid and gets offended if I can clean up quicker than she can, like even if she can’t see how I did it differently from her, somehow it’s cheating to have done it faster.
Spot on. this is the best comment in the section. A lot of the women here never valued the men they were with, not really. Maybe the men also didn't value the women back. goid luck with the next guy.